In Episode 1 of Therapist Talks, Sarah Shakibaie (Occupational Therapists) talks to Erin Carloss (Educational and Developmental Psychologist).
Here is a blurb about Erin:
“I am an Educational and Developmental Psychologist, working in a private practice in Kedron called Accoras Psychology. I am passionate about working with people at all stages across the lifespan, but have particular interests in pregnancy, parenting, attachment and child development. I strive to provide a safe and comfortable environment for my clients. I work from a client-centred approach and am flexible with my treatment to best suit my client’s needs, drawing on aspects of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT), Mindfulness, and Schema Therapy into my practice. I am also trained in the Circle of Security parenting program. Outside of work I enjoy yoga, reading, spending time with my dog, my family and my friends.”
During this interview, we talk about the following topics.
- What is an Educational and Developmental Psychologist?
- What can a Psychologist help with?
- What can a parent do if they notice their child is having difficulty with school?
- What to do if a child is struggling to separate from their parents in the morning?
- How to encourage a teenager to see a psychologist?
- Referral pathways and funding for psychology.
Check out the video for the full interview. Alternatively, the transcript of the interview can be found below.
Transcript
Sarah Shakibaie (00:00):
So we’re very lucky to have Erin here today to talk a little bit about her role. So Erin, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself?
Erin Carloss (00:10):
Yeah, sure. So I work as a psychologist in a private practice in Kedron. I’m there full time, so it’s five days a week at the moment. We’re all working remotely with everything going on, which has been interesting bit of a change. Outside of work, I live with my husband and we have a dog and you know, enjoy all things dog related. Usually kind of like spending time with family and friends. That’s a bit different at the moment too, obviously but otherwise I’m a bit of a home body, so it’s not been too bad recently.
Sarah Shakibaie (00:48):
Alright. So Erin’s just, she’s a general psychologist, but she’s done extra study to become an educational and developmental psychologist. Can you tell us what’s the difference between the two?
Erin Carloss (01:02):
Yeah. So this is a really good question cause I think it’s not well, it’s not a well known specialisation. So basically educational and developmental psychology is a specialisation within psychology. So general psychologists usually follow what’s called a four plus two pathway. So it’s four years of study and then a two year like internship kind of program that they do, to become an educational and developmental psychologist. We do the four years of undergraduate study, so it’s a three year bachelor and then an honors degree. And then we do a two year masters degree in educational and developmental psychology. And then after that we do a two year registrar program, which is basically working as per usual, but we have regular supervision, and increased professional development requirements in that area of training. And there’s like certain competencies that we need to tick off, to get that.
Erin Carloss (02:02):
So basically educational and developmental psychology specialises in working across the lifespan. But sort of with a developmental framework, I guess. So often we work with kids and teens as well as like pregnancy and parenting kind of stuff. But we also work with adults around like life transitions, adjustments, understanding their own history, that sort of thing. It’s also kind of, we’ve got extra training in psychological assessments. So things like assessing for learning difficulties or cognitive assessments or developmental assessments. Yeah, so I guess it’s just, it’s a different specialisation. There are other specialisations like clinical psychology or forensic or health or sports psych, neuro psych. So yeah.
Sarah Shakibaie (02:57):
And what drew your interest towards educational and developmental psychology?
Erin Carloss (03:04):
Yeah, I think, I just have always been a big fan of early intervention. Like it, it just makes the most sense to me to support people through early parenting or childhood kind of things rather than wait until it becomes a bigger problem. I think I’ve just, I’ve always been working, interested in working with kids and parents as well. Like that’s something I’ve always been really interested in. And I think providing support through some of those developmental transitions is, you know, normal stuff that we all go through, but often is stuff that’s really stressful and challenging. So things like adjusting to parenthood or you know, going through challenges with pregnancy or changing jobs, changing schools, like those kinds of transition moments that are sort of normal developmental things. But I think that’s when people need a lot of support. And so I think I just always was interested in the way that people develop and that kind of early intervention the framework.
Sarah Shakibaie (04:03):
So from what you’re saying, you see, sorry. So from what you’re saying, you see people from across the lifespan, so from very young to you know, to children who are going to school, parents who are going through parenting and all the way through the lifestyle. What kind of services do you guys provide is more one on one? Family counseling?
Erin Carloss (04:32):
Yeah, so our practice mostly does one on one. We do do some like the, not myself, but one of the other psychologists does some couples counseling stuff and we do a little bit of family counseling. It’s a bit of a tricky framework in private practice because there’s different Medicare rules and things for family counseling. But we do do a little bit of that where we can. So mostly it’s one on one work. Obviously working with kids and teens, that’s a little bit different because parents are more involved usually even when it’s kind of working one on one with the child. So yeah, so we, we do a lot of one on one therapy. We provide assessment services as well for lots of different presentations and different concerns that people might have.
Sarah Shakibaie (05:17):
So I guess a couple of general questions. So how do parents know if their children need to see a psychologist?
Erin Carloss (05:26):
Yeah, so there’s lots of different reasons I guess that a child might need to see a psychologist. So some of the common ones we get is if parents notice or sometimes a teacher might notice or someone else but if they notice that a child is having difficulty with with big emotions, so like they might get upset or angry a lot. They might be struggling with anxiety. Like, if they’re, you know, really hesitant to try new things or nervous meeting people or talking in front of people, those sorts of things, worrying a lot about stuff. They might have difficulty regulating those feelings. So difficulty calming down or settling, difficulty with sleep or with children’s behaviour. So if kids are, you know, if parents are struggling with like defiance or aggression or difficulty with routines, those sorts of things. There might be concerns with developments of parents and noticing if their child is maybe behind on some of the developmental milestones or ahead actually.
Erin Carloss (06:29):
Or if they’re struggling with things like social skills, struggling to settle into school or other big kind of life changes I guess. So maybe a parent’s separation or grief, you know, if there’s been a death in the family or something, bullying, you know, all sorts of things. So basically, I guess it’s, you know, parents know their kids better than anyone else. So if it’s, if parents are noticing, any of those kinds of concerns, mostly around like emotions or developmental kind of things. But otherwise, yeah, if there’s been some big life changes that can be useful then too.
Sarah Shakibaie (07:07):
So then what can a psychologist do for say, a child with learning difficulties? If the parent has noticed that they might be or a teacher has noticed that a child is a little bit delayed and some of the learning, what should a parent do?
Erin Carloss (07:24):
Yeah. It’s something that like, and I guess as a, an educational and developmental psychologist, that’s one of the things that we specialise in. Obviously that’s part of education and development. So we would normally help by conducting some assessments. So this would involve like an interview with the parents and the child asking about their history, what sort of things they struggle with. We would also normally talk to the teacher and probably do like an observation at school where we’d kind of, you know, watch how the kids are going, have a look at some work samples, all of those sorts of things as well as doing some standardized assessments. So it would be things like a cognitive assessment and an academic assessment. So what all of this does, I guess it gives us lots of information about why that child might be struggling.
Erin Carloss (08:15):
Cause I think that’s often the really hard thing is when kids don’t know or parents don’t know, kids will often feel like they’re stupid or they’re, you know, that they just don’t get it or there’s something wrong with them. And so when we work out, you know, what it might be that they’re actually struggling with at school, where are they getting stuck? We can identify something like a learning disorder or a developmental disorder like ADHD or autism or something like that or some other sort of cognitive delay. So understanding what it is, I think then helps us provide targeted support. So depending on what the concern is, being able to educate parents and teachers what kinds of supports that child might benefit from. So whether it’s, you know, a referral to an OT for handwriting sort of skills or speech pathology or adjustments in school that might be helpful with timeframes or, you know, phonological awareness interventions and those sorts of things. So there’s lots of different interventions that can help kids at school, but I think it’s kind of working out where are they getting stuck on what the problem is to start with. Often too, when we do those assessments, we’ll look at patterns of strengths as well. So, you know, rather than it being all focused on what are the things that they struggle with, but it’s being able to then use those strengths, I guess to help accommodate for some of those difficulties.
Sarah Shakibaie (09:44):
Yep. Great. That sounds really good. And then I guess some other thing is one of the questions that I as an occupational therapist get asked often is in relation to separating from parents in the morning. So children who are getting dropped off at school and they’re having a diff, uh, they’re struggling to separate and transition to the beginning of school. So do you have any tips for parents around that?
Erin Carloss (10:17):
Yeah, so this is something that like you said, we, we get a lot too. It’s a really common thing that I think a lot of parents struggle with, particularly when kids are starting school and it’s all kind of new and overwhelming. So, you know, a few key tips I guess are, one of the big things is probably building a good relationship with the teacher. So for the parents to get to know the teacher really well, if it’s, you know, starting school, having the child meet the parent, sorry, meet the teacher, before they start and those sorts of things. But also I think sometimes it helps them dropping the child off to someone, to a person. So whether it’s having a friend meet them at the gate or dropping them to where the teacher is or to the office or something.
Erin Carloss (11:00):
So they kind of feel like they’re being handed over to someone and feeling a little bit more secure rather than just kind of being dropped off at the gate. So sometimes that helps if kids are feeling a bit overwhelmed or a bit, sort of struggling with separating from the parents. Having a consistent drop-off routine is really important too. So I think, you know, keeping it as much the same as possible, leaving around the same time, dropping them off at the same place to the same person, kind of helps settle kids into it a little bit better. Just because they know what to expect, I think then and, and you know, they kind of get used to that routine. And probably the other thing is, you know, sometimes it helps for the child to be able to take something special of the parents or of theirs to school with them.
Erin Carloss (11:51):
So, you know, one of the that I sometimes do is get, you know, you can get those little like key rings or bag tags that you can put a little photo in. So sometimes having them put a photo of their family or of mum and dad or to take, you know, a note maybe that a parent can write for them in the morning or something they can take of the parents or from home that, you know, maybe check with the teacher to, to make sure that that’s okay with them as well to have it in the classroom, but to have something little that they can take with them sometimes helps ease that transition a little bit too.
Sarah Shakibaie (12:28):
So kind of maintaining that connection between the parent and the child even though they’re in a different room.
Erin Carloss (12:33):
Yeah, absolutely. And there’s a really cute kid’s book called The Invisible String that I use all the time. That’s a really good little book for any sort of separation. But he’s really good for that transition to school cause that’s kind of exactly what that talks about is maintaining that connection even though they’re not physically together.
Sarah Shakibaie (12:55):
And I guess another question, so moving out the age range to teenagers, a parent is worried about a teenager, whether that’s anxiety, depression, aggression. How do the parent encourage the teenagers to kind of see a psychologist?
Erin Carloss (13:17):
Yeah. It can be tricky sometimes. It depends a lot on the teenager too. I think. So I think generally we don’t want to force them to attend because you kind of don’t want them to associate it with a negative thing. But what I often do is, you know, advise parents to just to have an open conversation about it. Teens are kind of, you know, old enough to be able to engage in some of those conversations. You know, if you make it age appropriate, but have a conversation about what they’re noticing, what their concerns are, why they think a psychologist might be helpful. And then I think it can help to give the teenager some decision making power in this. So for example, giving them the option to kind of try it out to come for one or two sessions and see if it’s okay for them if it’s a good fit.
Erin Carloss (14:09):
Because often it’s not as scary as they might think it is. Or you know, um, psychology practices will often have like blurbs for each of their psychologists on their websites. So, sometimes what I encourage parents to do is to, let the teenager have a look at the blurbs and like they see if they can identify someone that they feel like might be a good fit for them or someone that they feel like they could relate to a little bit better. So I think sometimes just like including them in that decision rather than, you know, you know, ambushing them and just bringing them in or anything doesn’t usually set it up well. So I think just kind of including in some of that can be really helpful if they’re really against it. There’s often no point pushing it because teenagers can be very stubborn and so they’ll often come in but they just won’t engage, they won’t talk. And it just sort of sets it up to be a negative thing that they then don’t want to come back. And so I think as much as you can kind of having that open kind of conversation and encouraging it and giving them some choice in the matter, but if they’re really against it, it’s pretty hard to shift them on that.
Sarah Shakibaie (15:22):
Is there anyone the parent could kind of refer to, whether that’s someone at school or, maybe the teachers? Is there a pathway from them?
Erin Carloss (15:32):
Yeah, definitely. So I think GPs often a good first port of call, particularly if they, the family has a good relationship with their GP because they usually will know all the local practices and be able to do up a referral for them. But otherwise through school most schools and most high schools in particular will have either a guidance counselor or like a chaplain or someone in pastoral care. And so usually they’re able to link them in with psychologists or they might just be an easier first step where they can do some of that initial work in a, maybe a more familiar environment where it’s a little less scary. But certainly schools, you know, well-placed in a, usually linked in with, with some local services to be referred to a practice, the most common way that people come is through the GP. But you know, schools can certainly start some of those initial steps.
Sarah Shakibaie (16:35):
Hmm. So can we talk a little bit about the referral pathways and maybe some of the funding options?
Erin Carloss (16:41):
Yeah, yeah. So the most common referral pathways that we get are through a GP mental health care plan. So this comes under Medicare services. So basically to access that you just need to see your GP. Usually you need to book like a longer consult but they’ll ask you some questions about symptoms and you know, what you’ve been noticing and usually get you to complete a couple of questionnaires. And then that gives people access to 10 Medicare rebatable sessions per calendar year so from January to December. The GP will normally refer to a particular practice that they are linked in with or work closely with. You don’t have to go to the one that they recommend. You can pick your own one, but otherwise, you know, sometimes it’s helpful to go with whoever the local GP recommends.
Erin Carloss (17:38):
Or you can recommend, like you can say to your GP if you want to go to a particular person, if you’ve heard about them through other people or through the school or whatever. So that’s the most common that we get. So usually it’s an out of pocket fee. Some practices will bulk bill with concession cards and things like that. Probably the next most common one we get is if someone has an NDIS funding and that’s something that, that can be used on psychology services. So that works the same way with, with all other kind of NDIS services is just doing up a management plan and, and getting some of that information sent over to us and then we can, we can kind of liaise with whoever manages the plan from there. And otherwise people can come privately. So either if you’ve got private health insurance and sometimes they will cover psychology sessions depending on what sort of level of cover you have. And things like that. Or you know, if you don’t want to go through any of the funding kind of schemes, people are obviously welcome to come privately without a referral or anything. They can just come in and book themselves in. It’s just that obviously then you don’t get any money back through Medicare or anything. It’s all out of pocket.
Sarah Shakibaie (18:57):
Um, and then I guess, do you have any, oh, probably have to wrap up soon. So do you have any last comments or some advice that you would like to share with our family?
Erin Carloss (19:09):
Um, yeah, look, I think like one of the things that I said before and that I often kind of advocate for parents is that parents know their kids better than anyone else. You know, I think they often get caught up in trying to find the expert opinion or find the right thing. And, you know, I think if parents are ever concerned that’s enough to, to know that they might need some extra help or might need some support. You know, I’m, I think there’s a lot of worry from parents about judgments or about doing the right thing and, you know, psychologists, our whole job is to kind of be non-judgmental and be supportive and I really like that about that job. I think like being able to be trusted by parents and by kids and teens and kind of walk them through all of those things and help them with things that they’re struggling with. So I think, you know, advice to parents I guess is, is to seek help if they need it, you know? And it’s can only kind of help them be more confident and build some of those skills.
Sarah Shakibaie (20:19):
Yeah, definitely. That’s one of our advices as well that, yeah, so parents know the kids better than us. We see them for an hour every so often. We can kind of create a picture. But yeah, parents know them best.
Erin Carloss (20:38):
Yeah, absolutely. And I guess parents are often in that position to create the most change. So, you know, I often say the same thing working with parents is that you, I can see them for an hour, a week or a fortnight or whatever and kind of give them those tools. But really it’s the family that then takes that on and goes home and implements it. And that’s where we see real change happen. So, and I guess that’s something I really like about working with families as well, is that we get to get involved in that whole system. So rather than working just one on one with a person, it’s always so much more helpful and so much more valuable I think to get the whole system on board. So to get parents involved, to get teachers involved where it’s appropriate, just to have this whole support network around a person to be able to kind of maintain some of that change and that support.
Sarah Shakibaie (21:27):
And I think that’s where parents sometimes get a little bit overwhelmed because at home everything happens. Um, and it can be quite challenging to know what to target. So, you know, having professionals like a psychologist there and saying, you know, this might be, this might be a particular area that we could focus on, or these are some other strategies that might help with a range of things. Yeah, that’s really helpful as well to make sure the family is not feeling too overwhelmed.
Erin Carloss (22:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
Sarah Shakibaie (22:04):
So, Erin do you have, do you have a place where people could find more information about you or your organisation that you work for as well?
Erin Carloss (22:18):
Yeah, definitely. So the organisation that I work for is called Accoras Psychology. So our website has a bit of information about the services we provide. So I can probably send that to you, might be easier than spelling out the website. But we do have two on our Kedron page. You know, we’ve got a list of all our psychologists and kind of little blurbs about what we specialise in and special interest areas and those sorts of things. We also have a social media page that’s just called Accoras. So it’s a-c-c-o-r-a-s. So I think we’re on Facebook and Instagram, so sometimes that has some, some good information about the services we provide and those sorts of things. And people can always, you know, they’re free to give the clinic a call. And our admin team are wonderful and are always really happy to have a chat and provide some more information to people if they want it.
Sarah Shakibaie (23:07):
Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Erin, for spending your valuable time today and just talking about, yeah, your role and some tips for families as well. So yeah, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.
Erin Carloss (23:23):
Thank you for having me.
Links
Accoras Psychology website: https://www.accoras.com.au/psychologyservices
Accoras Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/Accoras/